Tears and Tulle with Gina Bell

Empowerment guide and founder of the Tears and Tulle movement, Gina Bell joins Leah McIntosh to read, "Tears and Tulle" and share the journey of the famous tulle skirt.

Episode Key Points:
More about the Tears and Tulle movement and Gina's, it might be me moment. [01:30}
The book, "Tears and Tulle" read by Gina Bell. [04:00]
How many woman have worn the skirt to date. [09:40]
More about the Tulle Trailblazer Program. [11:30]
You never know who you are setting an example for. [14:00]
Breaking bones to fit in boxes. [17:45]
Share your story and take up space. [21:00]
Connect with our magic from within the messiness. [23:15]
Leah's Tears and Tulle story. [25:30]
Follow up to Tears and Tulle, brother book. [28:00]

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More about Tears and Tulle
Thanks for listening! 

Transcript

Tears and Tulle with Gina Bell

[00:00:00] Leah McIntosh: Welcome to it might be me podcast. I'm your host, Leah McIntosh who are here to help you understand that on the other side of that pain and trauma is your transformation. There may be some limiting beliefs, negative emotions and private struggles that have led you to having more. It might be. I'm here to help you learn to adapt let that because we are created to be limitless.

My hope is with each episode, you've move free and understood. Willing to accept that. Although some of our past decisions landed us in a place of uncertainty. We are only one decision away from living our best lives. Now let's go.

(Intro)

Okay. Hey everyone. Welcome to another episode of it might be you. I have a treat today.

We're actually went to listen to a [00:01:00] book. And for those of you that follow me on YouTube, you also be able to see the illustrations and I highly suggest that you go watch. So today I have Gina Bell, she's the author of, “Tears and Tulle”. She's an empowerment guide and the founder of the tear and tulle, movement.

How are you? 

Gina Bell: I'm pretty good. Thank you so much for having me today. 

Leah McIntosh: I'm really excited. I was able to take the time out. And watch you read the book and it was really powerful. So I, I enjoyed it and I love the movement. So how about you share a little bit about you. 

Gina Bell: Sure again, I'm Gina bell and I'm the founder of the Tears and Tulle movement, which is a movement that follows tulle skirts all around the world.

And we help people to share their stories from within their tears moments. So I wrote a book that went along with that movement that was inspired. [00:02:00] By my life and by the women who are part of the project. And so I'm an author and a speaker. And like you said, an empowerment guide that just really likes seeing people connect, reconnect with their color.

Leah McIntosh: Awesome. Awesome. So with that, what was your, it might be me moment that made you go down that path. 

Gina Bell: Yeah. So I have been wearing tulle skirts for a long time, and I was on an abandoned overpass during a photo shoot in Orlando, Florida. And someone had just gifted me this giant rainbow tool skirt that was like bigger than I am.

And I had paired it with a black t-shirt and I thought, wow, this represents my chairs and my color. And so. Someone said, Hey, Gina, can you run? And I fluffed up the skirt all around me and I thought, oh my gosh, I'm, I'm about to take off in the space and run down this overpass and connect with my color [00:03:00] and things were not going perfect for me at that moment or that week in my life.

Like I had things that were coming up just like all of us do I think. And I thought, oh my gosh, if I can connect for just one moment with my magic from within the messiness of life. I can set an example so that maybe other people can connect for a few seconds at a time too. And that's what the movement's all about.

And that moment changed me. It changed my life forever. So I'm really passionate about talking about that and about helping people to reconnect from within. 

Leah McIntosh: I love that. So I want my listeners to have the opportunity. To hear and learn exactly what your book is all about. So I'm going to be quiet right now and I will let you read.

Gina Bell: Thank you. And before I get started, I just want to mention that this might be a short book, but it's really like billions of pages long [00:04:00] because all of our stories are like the stories in this book. We can all relate to pain, suffering and connecting with our magic. Please do imagine your own stories from within the stories I'm about to tell you tears and tool.

Written by Gina bell illustrated by Elena, make a lot of us for my children and my mom. Thank you for the spontaneous living room dance parties that often help me remember my magic Gina bell. So all the beautiful souls may you find your rainbow and never let go. Alaina Nica lettuce. One day a baby girl was born wearing a skirt made of tool.

It was bright and colorful, like a rainbow Juul. The skirt was invisible seemed just by the girl. She giggled happily watching its wild colors, swirl the skirt connected the girl to her magic color and dreams. When she was full of tears, the [00:05:00] skirts center, heart joyful beings as the girls grew and grew.

The magical skirt did too. As soon as she realized that life could be messy and unfair, she needed to remember her skirt would always be there. She philosophy her skirt and jumped to her feet. She would wake up the skirt with her own special fi skip dance, swish twirl. Remember the spirit of that magical girl.

Sometimes she felt scared, embarrassed, and like, she didn't have a clue. So she fluffed her skirt and remembered the fun of trying something new. There were times she felt left out misunderstood and like she would never fit in. So she fluffed her Sturt and remembered to be comfortable in her own skin.

Skip dance, swish, twirl. Remember the spirit of that [00:06:00] magical girl. And when life was just it's too much, and her eyes filled with tears. She fluffed her skirt and remembered. She could learn from her fear. The tears made her wise and watered the dream in her heart, fluffing, her skirt. She remembered it was a growing work of art skits.

Dance, swish twirl. Remember the spirit of that magical girl, as she grew older, her days could feel overwhelming, crazy and long. So she fluffed her skirt and remembered she was radiant, resilient, and strong. Sometimes it felt like her life was falling apart at the scenes. So she fluffed or stirred. And remember she could always connect to her dreams skin.

Dance swish twirl. Remember the spirit of that magical girl. He celebrated her failures in the lessons they taught to her along the way. She fluffed her skirt and remembered she [00:07:00] had something important to say. She trusted the wisdom in her heart to help others grow, learn, and heal golfing or spirits. She remembered her struggles made her beautiful and real skip dance.

Swish twirl. Remember the spirit of every magical girl. And then here at the end of the book is the story behind the skirt. It says, hi, my name is Gina bell, and I'm the creator of tears and tool, a women's empowerment movement that celebrates women who show up from within the cast of everyday life to connect with their magic.

In 2018, my life changed on an abandoned overpass in Orlando, Florida. I was wearing a simple black tank and the most magical rainbow colored tool skirt. I had purposely paired the colorful skirt with a black t-shirt to relay a special message to myself and people everywhere. We don't need to wait for life's perfect set of circumstances to connect with our extraordinary [00:08:00] color.

My purpose with the tears and tool movement is to reconnect women with their joy and color, even during life's starkest moments. It may sound strange, but the rainbow skirt woke up something wonderful in me. I want women everywhere to experience what I did a clarifying moment of vulnerability, magic and happiness a year and a half.

After that day on the overpass, I launched tears in Juul. I'm sharing the rainbow skirt with 52 people over 52 weeks as a way to inspire women everywhere, to reconnect with their color, the tool from within the darkness, the tears of real life. While organizing the movement. I learned that my friend and rainbow tool skirt designer cast Youngs had always hoped that one of her creations would travel the world.

She loved that our two ideas have become one. Each woman in the movement is gassed to pair of a skirt with something black, make their unique magic in it. And share their tears and tools. Story time after time participants have shared how much love and positive [00:09:00] energy, the rainbow skirt radiates and many participants have used their time with the skirt to reflect on their greatest struggles.

That's what tears and tools all about embracing our perfect family and perfect lives. And the tears and tool movement continues to grow and evolve in amazing ways. You can start a movement by starting your own tears and tool tribe, or becoming a tears and tool trailblazer. The end. I don't know if people can see the pictures a little bit, but there are pictures in there of the different women up until now who are wearing the skirt.

Leah McIntosh: So that leads me to my next question. How many shirts have taken the skirt 

Gina Bell: so far? Yeah, so it has been all over the United States that went to Honolulu and came back. It's been to Canada and it just came back to. Locally I'm right on the border of Indiana and Illinois near Chicago. And it is on house 43.

It's actually at a friend [00:10:00] of mine's house right now. So it's kind of exciting for me, but yeah, it's been to 43 houses so far and it'll travel for 52 and then restart with season two. With the first participant and we have a waiting list for season three at this point. So it's really, it's going places.

Leah McIntosh: So how long does each woman. 

Gina Bell: Yeah. Each woman has it for about seven days. And because of COVID, we're running about six months over the year mark right now, because of just so many things happen with shipping and that sort of stuff. So I'm learning about grace and patience and about letting things evolve in a natural way because you just, you can't control the shipping.

So. Yeah, people have it for about a week and it's amazing to see the, the different participants talk about how they feel from the moment it [00:11:00] gets there to the moment that they send it off to the next woman on the list.

Leah McIntosh: Well, and to think, you know, I'm big on energy and just the positive energy of the whole movement.

I can only imagine, you know, what it feels like to actually have that hurdle. And when you know that there's just. It's just filled with positive, you know, the positive intent behind it. What is your vision? Like how many do you have a number of, you know, how many people do you want to wear this skirt?

Gina Bell: Yeah, when it's cool is a couple of months into the movement. We realized that that one skirt wasn't enough to reach as many people as we wanted to. And so we created these tiers in tulle trailblazer program, and a tears and tulle tried program where people could either. Wear skirts of their own and kind of stand alone and [00:12:00] tell their story.

Always paired with something black. That's the whole tears tool. We know that's the magic behind it is that we're all standing in the space together, but everyone wears the skirt with something black, but we have trailblazers and we have tribes. So with trailblazers, tell their stories. And then a lot of our trailblazers become tribal leaders.

And so then they share their skirt with different women in their groups. And so that is just starting to kind of evolve and grow out into the world a little bit. So I kind of see it, like all those skirts and then this one original skirt are all forming, like this giant tool skirt, but is sort of wrapping around all of us and encouraging us to take up space in the world.

So, and this isn't the tool that we grow up seeing for sure. Just because it's different. 

Leah McIntosh: So yeah, this, I don't know when I, when you reached out and we connected, I immediately went and watched. [00:13:00] You read the book. And I was like, oh, this is just, this is amazing. It kind of reminded me of the sister hood of traveling pants that I got.

I was like, oh, this is cool. This is like the, the genes. But it's so much more than that because it's reaching so many different types of women. And the next thing that our next thought I had was it really makes you connect to the little girl inside. And for people that may struggle with doing that, it's hard not to.

And I think I was somebody that kind of struggled with listening to the little Leah, but as I get older, I'm realizing she's still in there. And this book just kind of brought that back to the forefront that, you know, you forget as you get older in life happens that they're still. [00:14:00] A little girl in there with all the big dreams.

And, and I think that your book is, even though, like you said, a short, it's still such a powerful reminder, so yeah. And what are. Some of the stories, I guess, from other women that stood out to you?

Gina Bell: Just with you sharing how you felt about the book reminded me of one of our participants named Dean. If you were to go, if you Google, if you Google tears and tulle find all kinds of pictures and stuff, but if you see one that's named Dean and she's.

She's actually taking her pictures at a playground. And she was saying, I don't know how long it's been since I've been to a playground, you know? And she took these beautiful pictures, but she had mentioned that we never know who we're setting an example for. Like, we never know. We, we just never know. And that it's given me goosebumps right now because we really.

We don't know who we're [00:15:00] reaching with our stories or, you know, with continuing to show up in the world and connect with our color. But at the end of her little write-ups that accompanied her pictures. She said, even if it's the younger, you looking back at you in the mirror and I thought, oh yes. Even if it's that little girl or teenager that just didn't know how to cope with certain things, or didn't know how to.

You know, stand in her own power and really communicate and all that stuff, you know, so that you really just reminded me of that. When you mentioned, you know, remembering the little girl, I think that could be such a powerful exercise to kind of look in the mirror. 

Leah McIntosh: Know, I know when I first started my journey into being the best version of Leah that I could be, that was one of the assignments that I had from.

My mentor, which was to do mirror work and to stand in front of the mirror and talk [00:16:00] to little Leah in the amount of ugly crying that I did then during that was insane. And then just within the last couple of weeks, I've been doing a lot of group work and realizing there's still a lot of hurt.

Well, when I was seven years old. And so I have been trying to get in touch more with that little girl that, like I said, I just kind of buried because life happens and, you know, you grow up and you, you forget to have fun and forget to show your color. And I noticed. That a friend of mine was talking to me about branding on social media.

And this is so different than, but its own topic. I wanted to follow the trend, which was the clean lines and all that forget color. And she said, why would you do that? [00:17:00] Why to be like everyone else? Why, why have the bland colors? That's not really who you are and that. Woke me up a little bit. She was like, you know, don't be afraid to show your color, embrace that.

So many other people aren't doing that, be who you're going to be. And that's another thing that stood out for me with that book was the color, you know, that, especially after having that conversation with her, I was like, oh yeah, we don't like to show that color. You know, we don't, we, we go with the trend.

Gina Bell: Right. I was saying the other day, how the skirts started out in this giant box. Okay. It was like this huge cardboard box that my designer friends sent it over in. And I, I swear that the box gets smaller. Every staff, it makes like, it just, it, it shrinks down. It gets [00:18:00] smaller. It's like this clown car, when it comes out and the women say they could feel the energy just like flooding through them that there's this collective sort of energy of everyone kind of cheering them on.

And. I think that we become so comfortable in the bot. What did I say? Oh, I didn't know what I said. I'd become so tired of breaking my own bones to fit into boxes. I didn't even like, and boxes. I didn't even create that. My mom maybe didn't even create, you know, and then it goes through that sort of ancestral line.

And I really think the skirt, the box is a great representation of that. That it, it grows. You know, it's like the Grinch's heart or something. It's like, it grows like 3, 5, 7, 10 sizes. The size that the box is. And. I think the only way to really mend those bones and we're not going around like breaking her own bones, but when we become smaller to fit into these spaces to feel [00:19:00] accepted or loved, or part of something that we're not even sure we want to be part of, I think that, you know, we do break our own bones, like fitting into those spaces.

And I really think connecting with our color again helps us to men. It helps us to take one step out of. Of those sort of traditional boxes that, you know, and we become so comfortable, we think they're normal and we think we're, we're supposed to, to sort of shrink into them, but I'm here to tell you the more he get out of the box, the more comfortable you get, even though it can be really scary so that you reminded me of that with your color talk.

Leah McIntosh: Yeah. And you know, it is it's we get in a comfort zone. And when you do get out of it, it's one of the most freeing feelings. And, you know, I'm somebody, I guess that prided [00:20:00] myself in not putting myself in a box because I was homeschooled all the way through, from kindergarten to high school. So I didn't feel like I had to fit in to be accepted and all that.

But when I got into the real world, I had to. Like you said, break my bones to fit. So that way I, you know, could fit into corporate America and do all these things that I wasn't really in alignment with. And I feel like a lot of women have to do that. You know, we'd have to. As you said, break your bones too, to fit in and maybe wear the bland colored clothes and things, because if you're too loud, then it's, you know, not appropriate or whatever.

That's what we're told at least. And so this movement that you created is just [00:21:00] amazing. So that. The ladies that have been able to experience. And now my listeners being able to hear this, hopefully we can get some, some of them on your list.

Gina Bell: Yeah. Become trailblazers, blazed that trail, you know, share your stories.

I would absolutely love to hear more stories of women connecting and taking up space. 

Leah McIntosh: Yes. And that's the thing taking up space because we forget to, you know, like I said, you. You get caught up in life, mom, me and mom be in wife or whatever, and you forget to take care of you. And so this book and this movement is super, super important, and I'm glad that I have the opportunity to share it with people that may not have otherwise known.

And I'm glad that we got to talk and talk about this to me. It's an [00:22:00] important topic. Thank you. So, one question I have for you is what other piece of advice, I guess, would you give to a woman who wants to start living full out and showing her color and empowering herself to, you know, get that competence to do that?

Gina Bell: I just saw a Glennon Doyle. She wrote on tamed. Spoke on tamed. And she, she just shared this quote recently that said, and I'm probably going to quote it wrong, but something like this, my life is mine and mine alone, and I've decided to stop taking directions from people who aren't even on my path, you know?

And so. That one really hit me hard because I think for a lot of my life, I have really [00:23:00] absorbed what other people thought I should be doing, you know? And maybe not even in a purposely intentional, you know, way where I'm like, oh, I'm going to go do those things, but was not a alone allowing myself to be sort of the navigator of my own life in a lot of ways.

And so. I think when we can take moments where, especially in a picture perfect social media world, where we could say like, unless you were born with a bubble in a bubble with a blindfold on you've had struggles, you've had things that have happened to you and it's part of life. And we're all going through things together.

And, you know, We can still connect with our magic from within that messiness. But I think when we wait, I'm gonna wait until this, this, and this happens before I go after my dreams or before I try this new thing, like a couple of weeks ago, I just decided that I'm going to climb out of it. [00:24:00] Giant genocides sized box on stage.

Next time I speak with a tulle skirt on everything and I come out of this box. So when I talk about boxes and it's terrified, you know, like, and if I waited until I really felt ready, I don't think I would probably ever get to that. You know, that box stage moment. So I do this exercise with people called.

The even when, especially then and there, the tears and tool moments of our lives. And so I always encourage people, even if you do these once a week or once a month or something, you could take something you really like about yourself, you follow with a tears moment and then you end it with, especially then.

So you would say something like I'm smart. Even when I forget my computer password. Especially that like it's, especially in the moments where we don't feel connected, that we need to remember that we're, you [00:25:00] know, magical beings on this planet that are meant to bring this color into the world. I don't know.

That would be my little bit of advice, I guess, to kind of band us all together. And 

Leah McIntosh: that's amazing. It just hit me a little bit, like, Ooh. Yeah. 

Gina Bell: Do you want to name yours? Do you want to say something you'd like about yourself followed by a tears moment and I'll go in that space with you? 

Leah McIntosh: Yeah, let's see.

Let me 

Gina Bell: put you on the spot. 

Leah McIntosh: So tears. So it's you do it with the tears moment or 

Gina Bell: they some say once, say something you love about yourself. So like, I am blank even when blank, which is live tears, and then I'll end it with you. And we'll say, especially then together. 

Leah McIntosh: Okay. I am patient, even when I'm getting, cause this happens, I'm getting yelled at and especially, [00:26:00] I don't know if I'm doing it 

Gina Bell: right.

No, you did it perfectly. So you're patient, even when you're getting yelled at, because that's an icky feeling. And then we end up together. Let me say, especially then, because we're in this space, I hold this space with you, for you to feel your tears and let them water your dreams. 

Leah McIntosh: Yeah. Cause we were just thinking about it today as well.

Over the last week, I've gotten yelled at a lot by one of the other things that I do. I don't know if I mentioned, you know, I I'm a sponsor residential. Provider for two individuals with intellectual disabilities. And so I was gone for two weeks. And so it's been a readjustment back into Leah is home and Alia is in, you know, in charge and we have to start getting back on a good routine.

And so it's been. Pull push and pull a little bit. And so of yelled at quite a [00:27:00] bit this week in grout at, and, and all kinds of other stuff. But that was a, that's a powerful, a powerful things. I'm gonna have to write that one down because. 

Gina Bell: Even when, especially then, yes. It's kind of like mad libs where you would add in the you'd add in the words, except I don't know this one's maybe deeper than that.

So I am blank even when blank, especially that. 

Leah McIntosh: Yeah. That's great. So yeah, that was it. I, it makes you think it doesn't make you think it makes you sit in that feeling for a minute and then just let it go. Just let it go. So that's, that's a good one. I have another good one. Another good question. Are you writing?

I follow up too. 

Gina Bell: Yes. [00:28:00] So the brother book, the boy book will come out probably spring 2022. So I just finished writing it. The illustrator Elena is working on illustrations. The editor has it, all, everything that happens behind the scenes when you publish a book. And so this story is about a boy and his multicolored Cape that grows alongside him as he grows.

And there's a twist. It isn't exactly like the traditional capes. We see growing up, it. Also connects the boy with his vulnerability and his feelings and standing in his true self, like whatever that means for him. And so the girl in the story, she fluffs her skirt, the boy and the story hub. That's his Cape.

Every time he feels in power or he hugs his Cape. And so I, yeah, that's what I'm working on [00:29:00] right now is bringing that story out into the world. And there's a men's movement that launches. In a couple of weeks, June, 2021, that will actually follow a real, I'm sorry. It's called tears in taffeta. So another fabric, not tool, but taffeta.

And so, uh, there's a task that a case that this massive, strong, beautiful, colorful caves that. We'll start with my brother, I'm wearing it. And then it will go to 12 men over 12 months and they'll share their tears and taffeta stories. So it's growing, expanding, making room for everybody. Awesome. 

Leah McIntosh: I love that.

I love it. Yeah, because you know, men, especially, unfortunately they're not able to show. Their emotion as openly and freely as, as women. And so [00:30:00] that, you know, that's a definitely an important, important movement as well. 

Gina Bell: It's a little scary for me because it will challenge the way that things normally are.

Just like the skirt does, you know, so I'm excited. I'm excited to bring this story to light and, you know, See who might be able to connect with them. 

Leah McIntosh: Yeah. Cause I just, you telling me, I was like, oh, that is, I know a couple guys that would love that story already or loved the book just based off of that.

It reminded me of my husband. We, we joke a lot about him thinking that he was a superhero when he was child. So. He, I think would resonate with that. The Cape, because we, we would talk and joke a lot about that. Try not to do it now since we're, you know, [00:31:00] older, but yeah, that is, that's an amazing movement in itself.

So you said that's coming out next year. 

Gina Bell: As long as I get an a pre-order hopefully wait, that won't be a problem, but it's supposed to come out spring of 2022. So the movement launches in June of this year. And then we'll, we'll share some of the pictures of some of the men wearing Cape in the back of the book.

So the book won't be ready for several months from the launch of the, the movement, the 

Leah McIntosh: project. Awesome. Trying to think of any other. Questions that pop in, because I definitely want to know if there was going to be a follow-up to the tiers and tools though. I'm glad to hear that. There's there's one, has there been any other like requests for you to maybe just make a book of pictures of the different women wearing?

[00:32:00] Gina Bell: Yeah. We're you're spot on tonight. So we're going to, we're going to have a magazine that'll come out in 2022 that we'll have. A bunch of these beautiful pictures, probably one or two per participant, and there's 52 people. And so there'll be sharing quotes and different inspirational things that came to them when they were wearing skirts.

So hopefully that will be available in the spring as well. As long as everything comes together, the way it. I'm hoping that it was 

Leah McIntosh: awesome. So yeah, before forward to seeing, like, I'll be looking for that, cause I want to see these other ladies, who've had the opportunity to experience that positive energy and being able to wear that skirt and build that empowerment that, you know, that makes me happy.

I see. And people feel good is, is something that. Is important to me. And so, yeah, I would [00:33:00] love to see that. That's all I be keeping my eyes open for that you gave such a good piece of advice already. So how can listeners purchase your book? 

Gina Bell: Yeah, so they can go on Gina bell.co. So it's Gina bell.co, and I'll give your listeners and viewers a discount code, which is the word rainbow.

So if you go to Gina bell.co you use the code rainbow. And that's for us and Canada orders. If you're outside of the U S or Canada, you'll have to go on Amazon to order it there. And you just put tears and tool in the search. But if you Google tears in tool, I think one of the first things that pops up is also information on the book.

So it should be pretty easy to find. 

Leah McIntosh: Okay, awesome. Because I know for me, my, my niece, I told you my maiden name is bell. And so her last name [00:34:00] is bell. And for her, anytime she sees bail, she just gets excited. So I want to order the book for her, cause she's well, you 

Gina Bell: let me know if you do, and I'll make sure that I, I personalize it for her or at least put a little message in there with, and sign it.

Leah McIntosh: Cause she's really right now into. Tool skirts. So this is like right up her alley. I want her to have this because it's so positive and empowering with that. Is there any other way, or my listeners to contact you on social? 

Gina Bell: On Facebook. We have a couple of groups. We have the tiers in tool movement group, which is just tears and tool.

It's a group on there. We have the tears and chill book community, which is a super fun community where you can find out what's happening with the book and. See pictures and things like that at readings and Instagram is tears and tool [00:35:00] or Gina Marino bell. So those are my two handles. So, and now we have cheers and taffeta.

So you could actually find that there might not be very many people that you have, but there's tears and chat, but on that's on Instagram as well. 

Leah McIntosh: Awesome. Awesome. Awesome. Okay. Well, I want to thank you for coming on and reading and sharing your movement. Like I said it touched me. And so I felt like I wanted to share that with my community.

So thank you for coming and blessing our listeners with your, your book. 

Gina Bell: It was an honor to be here. Thank you for having me. 

Leah McIntosh: Thank you. And I would love for you to come back when you launch. Or when peers would have taffeta is out. So hear that too. 

Gina Bell: You got it. 

Leah McIntosh: All right. Great. Thank you. 

(outro)

Thanks for listening to another episode of it might be you. I release new episodes on Thursdays and make sure to follow me on Instagram at @SuperiorThinkerInc so that you can keep up with all things, Leah and the podcast. Thanks for listening.